The Traditional Family vs Whatever. Is there room for compromise?


Posted in Commentary


Oct. 7, 2007 at 11:10


by BrendaBee

Two of my favorite people (Joel http://joelgillespie.blogspot.com/2007/10/on-dobson-guliani-and-being-pro-family.html and Potatostew http://pleadthefirst.com/2007/10/07/when-pro-family-anti-family/ ) are on opposite ends of a problem that we as a society will soon have to grapple with seriously. That is the issue of just what constitutes a marriage and who is eligible to form this special union. I am somewhere in the middle where human compassion for the individuals involved can be taken into consideration, but at the same time we as a society do not jump off into deep waters by opening up the issue of marriage as it has throughout history been known to any manner of interpretations.

I have for years believed and preached that homosexuality is a genetic predisposition and not a choice. I feel society should accept homosexuals and lesbian couples and give them all the rights to raise children and adopt children, as well as to work at any jobs they are qualified for. In fact, they should have all rights, but one. They should not be permitted to legally marry. The argument that being legally married would strengthen the relationship doesn't stand water when you consider all the divorces that legally married couples end up getting. A piece of paper does not a relationship or commitment make.

But, this particular piece of paper extended to gay couples would open a Pandora’s box of social and legal problems. Marriage confers certain benefits to spouses that are not extended to other members of society. Just off the top of my head is Social Security and some other retirement benefits that were made law to protect the wife who in the traditional family did not work outside the home and earn these benefits herself. Now we open marriage up to anyone, and we will because once the door is open there will be no closing it again, then what about these earned benefits? It is already the law that they go to the partner in a marriage in case of the death of the other, or as in the case of Social Security while the husband is still alive the wife whether or not she ever worked would get a SS check that is a percentage of her husband’s. What is to keep any number of combinations of partners and any number of partners from “marrying” and therefore qualifying for these same benefits. Under a law allowing any kind of combinations of relationships besides the traditional man and woman (husband and wife) could have a man “marrying” his sister-in-law, his aunt, his next door neighbor as well as his wife and they would under the law ALL be eligible for an SS Check under his Social Security. I promise you this will happen because people are always looking for ways to beat the system and get something for nothing.

There is simply no end to the legal problems that allowing gay marriages would cause. On the other hand, a piece of paper does not promise commitment. A couple who are committed will stay together no matter what. Men and women have forever lived their lives and died together and raised families and had great grandchildren and never stood before a preacher or judge.

Now, what should and could be done: In the case Potaostew mentions where the woman wants her uncle to care for her children but the state of Utah law will not allow it because he is cohabiting with his gay partner then these stupid laws should be changed. Parents should be allowed to specify who cares for their children when they can not and unless these people are known to be criminals then the arrangement should be permitted. In any case, children should never be placed in foster care when an adult or adults are willing and able to care for them.

Another case is allowing gay couples to adopt children. This should be permitted. Being gay is not being a pedophile! In fact most pedophiles are married heterosexuals men. Hat there are homosexual pedophiles, yes, but be reasonable here and look at the individuals and don’t just out of hand accuse and accept as truth because it is rumored or even because there are “clubs” of homosexual pedophiles. Don’t bother to look now but there are also “clubs” of heterosexual pedophiles, “clubs” for entire family swap parties and any other perverted sick thing the humanoid animals mind can conceive.

The other case that is often reported and is wrong is when the gay couples can not visit each other in hospitals. Or when one partner in the relationship is denied the right to dispose of the body of the other partner and authority falls back to the blood relations. Gay couples, or any couples or individuals for that matter, should be afforded the right to designate who will be considered to have these privileges. I knew well two elderly ladies (not gay) who were badly hurt by this next of kin stuff. The one hadn’t seen or heard from her children for years, but when she was hospitalized her closest friend could not even visit her dying friend and had no say in what was done to her body after death although she was the one person who knew what her friend wanted done. It turns out that the children had her body cremated and this was the one thing all of us knew she was afraid of. She had been badly burned as a child and was afraid of fire. It made no matter that she was dead and the body just an empty husk; her wishes should have been honored. These things are wrong and can be worked out, but leave the marriage laws alone. Just don’t get into that Pandora’s box.

If we could all just exercise a little sanity and throw in a bit of humanity then surely all problems can be worked out. Why are sanity and humanity, especially humanity so hard to come by? BB

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Oct. 7, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Anthony
Good post Brenda. Though I wouldn't say I'm on the "opposite" end of Joel - I'm more in the middle as well. I think it would be an acceptable compromise to stop short of calling it "marriage". The important things in this case are the benefits and protections that come from marriage. Your examples are all spot on, though I would include SS benefits as well - after all, in a traditional marriage these days, the wife may have worked her whole life, but she'll still receive her husband's benefits.
Posted by Anthony

Oct. 7, 2007 - Reply

Brenda,

Joel here. I don't think Anthony and I are quite as opposite as you suggest, nor do I think I'm on one end and he is in the middle :-) (as per his comment).
Posted by Anonymous

Oct. 7, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Anthony
Heh... sorry about that Joel. I kind of glossed over your "side" in my comment, but no, I wouldn't say you represent one end of any spectrum either.
Posted by Anthony

Oct. 8, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Anthony, You don't seem to understand that the name you give it is not the point. It is the benefits. The benefits that are for spouses only under the law. Note my example of a man "marrying" any number of people and them all being eligible for these benefits under the law. This will happen if you start down the road of redefining marriage. And Anthony I am sure you are aware that the Social Security Trust Fund is almost out of funds now and will be totally when the Baby Boomers start retiring and then the payments over and above what is currently collected will have to come from general taxes. Do you really want to put more people on the government dole? The Government dole people have a tendency to forget is our tax dollars. The government is not a money making entity it gets the money it gives away out of our pockets. Which right now the money it is spending g is really out of the pockets of our great grandchildren.

Once you say that Gay couples can marry and have all the benefits of marriage then every group out there will demand equal treatment and the government having set the precedent will not be able to deny any, and I do mean any, combinations of relationships to be called a marriage and to be eligible for the benefits of marriage.

This is not a moral issue with me but just a plain old, Hey people we can not afford to do this because we don’t have the money.

We now have a case in point right here in Greensboro that was slipped past the voters and ignored by the City Council. That is of course putting live in partners on the insurance of the employee. Now how long do you think it will be before an employee wants to put their sister under their policy? Or their next door neighbor? Or maybe just everyone who lives under the same roof as the employee? It will happen as sure as God made those little green apples, it will happen if it has not already. The city subsidizes the employees insurance which means the city is also be subsidizing the partner’s insurance. That is you and me. We are subsidizing the insurance of someone else’s live in partner.

Now if these people want the insurance benefits so bad it is really easy to get since all they have to do is get married and it it gotten legally but does not open the door to abuse of the system. Mitch Johnson pulled this one and we tax payers had better press the City Council to change this policy before it gets out of hand. Of course there is no use talking to the present City Council since that is as useless as spitting in the wind.

Again I want to make sure it is understood that mine is not a moral stand but a stand for fiscal responsibility.

Posted by BrendaFayBowers

Oct. 8, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Joel, I realize that the gist of your post was not this particular issue but you did allude to it and it was opposite from Anthony’s as I read it, so I used it as an example.

This issue is not going away and will have to be faced. Many governmental bodies (cities, states) and companies have already breeched the line of spousal benefits with the insurance issue as our own city government has done. This just puts a crack in the definition of marriage being one man one woman. More cracks are coming as the traditional spousal benefits are made available to non spouses until eventual marriage will have no real meaning or benefit.

Gee, I hope I didn't offend you and Anthony because I would never want to do that. (I only work to offend people I don't like! :-) ) I just took your posts as an opening to a debate I feel has to be aired. And aired very soon. BB
Posted by BrendaFayBowers



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